'Saye1'
Index links to: Lead / Letter
Families covered: Say(e) of Say(e), Saye of Sele
| The following shows connections reported by various web sites but are believed to be on the basis either of assumptions that sources such as BE1883 do not wish to make or of a misinterpretation of BE1883. For example, although it does seem that there was a Picot de Say(e) alive around the time of the Conquest, it seems that he was probably a cousin/kinsman rather than an ancestor of the William who married Agnes de Grentmesnil. Nevertheless we have decided to show this top section not least to provide a link for the Isabel who married twice into families shown elsewhere in this database. | |||||||||||||||
| Robert de Saye | |||||||||||||||
| 1. | Picot de Saye (b c1022) | ||||||||||||||
| A. | Robert FitzPicot de Saye, Lord of Clun (d before 1098) | ||||||||||||||
| m. Adeloyes | |||||||||||||||
| i. | Henry de Saye, Lord of Clun (d before 1121) | ||||||||||||||
| This Henry is reported by various web sites to be father of the William de Saye who married Agnes de Grentmesnil (see below) and of ... | |||||||||||||||
| a. | Elias or Ingelgram (Ingram) de Saye, Lord of Clun (d before 1166) | ||||||||||||||
| (1) | Isabel de Saye, Baroness of Clun (d 1199) | HJY | |||||||||||||
| m1. William FitzAlan, lord of Oswestry, Sheriff of Shropshire (d 1160) | HJY | ||||||||||||||
| m2. (before 1166) Geoffrey de Vere (d 1170) | |||||||||||||||
| m3. (before 1188) William de Botreaux (d c1220) | |||||||||||||||
| ii. | Robert de Saye | ||||||||||||||
| BE1883 starts off with ... | |||||||||||||||
| William de Say or Saye | |||||||||||||||
| 1. | William de Say(e) (a 1066) | ||||||||||||||
| m. Agnes de Grentmesnil (dau of Hugh de Grentmesnil) | |||||||||||||||
| A. | William de Saye (d 08.1144) the first of this family reported by TCP (Say) | ||||||||||||||
| m. Beatrix de Mandeville (d 19.04.1197, dau of William de Mandeville) | |||||||||||||||
| i. | William de Saye (dvp before 01.08.1177) | ||||||||||||||
| m. Aufrica (dau of William 'the Lion', King of Scots) | |||||||||||||||
| a. | Beatrix de Say (d before 19.04.1197) | ||||||||||||||
| m. (before 25.01.1184) Geoffrey FitzPiers, 1st/4th Earl of Essex (d 02.10.1213, Justiciar) | |||||||||||||||
| b. | Maud de Say (d 28.03.1222) | ||||||||||||||
| m. William de Boeland of Buckland (d before 15.04.1216) | |||||||||||||||
| William was son of Hugh de Boeland of Buckland by Maud (widow of Piers de Lutegareshale). The following, from TCP (vol 5, 'Essex', pedigree opposite or near to p116), is largely supported by MGH (NS5 vol 5 (1925), p63) which spells the family name "Boelond". | |||||||||||||||
| (1) | Maud de Boeland | ||||||||||||||
| m. William d'Averenches of Folkestone (d 06.11.1230) | |||||||||||||||
| (2) | Hawise (Avis) de Boeland (dsp 1226) | ||||||||||||||
| m. John de Boville | |||||||||||||||
| (3) | Jean de Boeland (d 16.11.1252) | ||||||||||||||
| m1. Robert de Ferrers (dspm 04.12.1225) | |||||||||||||||
| m2. Geoffrey d'Averenches (a 11.1236) | |||||||||||||||
| ii. | Geoffrey de Say (d 19.05.1214) | ||||||||||||||
| m1. Alice or Lettice Maminot (dau of Hugh Maminot, widow of Ralph de Cahaines) | |||||||||||||||
| a. | William de Say (dvp before 08.03.1197) | ||||||||||||||
| b. | Geoffrey de Say (b c1155, d 1230)§C |
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| m1. Alice de Caisneto or Chesney (dau of John de Caisneto) | |||||||||||||||
| (1) | William de Saye of Sele (d before 12.02.1271-2) | ||||||||||||||
| m1. Sibyl (a 1250) | |||||||||||||||
| m2. Mary | |||||||||||||||
| (A) | William de Saye of Sele (b 20.11.1253, d c16.09.1295) | ||||||||||||||
| m. Elizabeth | |||||||||||||||
| (i) | Geoffrey de Saye, 1st Lord (b c1281, d 1322) | ||||||||||||||
| m. Idonea de Leyburne (dau of William de Leyburne) | |||||||||||||||
| (a) | Geoffrey de Saye, 2nd Lord (b c1305, d 26.06.1359) | ||||||||||||||
| m. Maud de Beauchamp (d 28.07.1369, dau of Guy de Beauchamp, 2nd Earl of Warwick) | |||||||||||||||
| ((1)) | William de Saye, 3rd Lord (b 17.06.1340, d before 07.08.1375) | ||||||||||||||
| m. Beatrice de Brewes (dau of Thomas, Lord Brewes) | |||||||||||||||
| ((A)) | William de Saye, 4th Lord (b c1373, d 27.07.1382) | ||||||||||||||
| ((B)) | Elizabeth de Saye (b 24.02.1365/6, dsp 08.07.1399) | ||||||||||||||
| m1. Sir John de Fallesle or Falvesley or Fawsley, Lord (dsp 1392/3) | |||||||||||||||
| m2. (before 11.1393) Sir William Heron, Lord of Saye (d 30.10.1404) | |||||||||||||||
| ((2)) | Thomas de Saye (d young) | ||||||||||||||
| ((3)) | John de Saye (d young) | ||||||||||||||
| ((4)) | Idonea de Saye (d c1384) | ||||||||||||||
| m. John de Clinton, 3rd Lord of Maxtock (d 06/8.09.1398) | |||||||||||||||
| ((5)) | Elizabeth de Saye (dsp) | ||||||||||||||
| m. Thomas or John de Aldone | |||||||||||||||
| ((6)) | Joane de Saye | ||||||||||||||
| m1. Sir William Fiennes (b 02.02.1331/2, d 30.11.1359) | |||||||||||||||
| One of their grandsons became Lord Saye and Sele. | |||||||||||||||
| m2. Stephen de Valoines (Valence) | |||||||||||||||
| (b) | Katherine de Say (a 09.1355) | ||||||||||||||
| m. (c1320) John de St. John, 3rd Lord of Lageham (d 08.04.1349) | |||||||||||||||
| (c) | Juliane de Say (d 20.02.1329) | ||||||||||||||
| m. Roger de Northwode, 2nd Lord (b c1307, d 05.11.1361) | |||||||||||||||
| (d)+ | other issue - Roger, Ralph | ||||||||||||||
| (ii) | daughter | ||||||||||||||
| m. John de Sudeley, 1st Lord (d by 18.04.1336) | |||||||||||||||
| (iii) | Agnes de Saye shown by MGH (NS4 vol 3 (1910), p314) as of this generation | ||||||||||||||
| m. Sir Alexander Cheney (d 1296) | |||||||||||||||
| m2. (div) Margery Briwerre (sister of William Briwerre) | |||||||||||||||
| m2. Alice de Vere (d 28.10.1217, dau of Aubrey III de Vere, 1st Earl of Oxford) | |||||||||||||||
Main source(s):
(1) BE1883 (Saye or Say), TCP (Say), BP1934 (Saye and Sele) with input from TCP (Essex)
(2) For top section: various web sites
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